You come up with a simple idea. Something that could be easily executed. However, the more you think about and develop it, the more interesting or unique it becomes until finally, you feel as though it's an idea that shouldn't be wasted by a botched attempt. Twists and interesting concepts will only have the greatest impact the first time around, after all, so it's easy to come to the conclusion that you should set such an idea aside and pursue it in the future when you feel you have the skills to do it justice. Even if it means having dozens of concepts locked away that the world may never see.
I guess only time will tell if 10 years down the road this kind of mindset pays off or not. In the meantime though, it's making my job very difficult. Though I suppose an abundance of ideas is better than a lack thereof, so there's that.
Story
Anyhow. Since I've decided to do something simple, focusing on execution rather than complicated gameplay mechanics, my only hurdle is coming up with a story idea that doesn't spiral out of control in it's premise and complexity. Seems to me that it's about finding a balance between story, and self contained events. For instance, consider the following example,
"At the behest of the king, a hero sets out to slay a demon lord who wishes to claim the throne."
As long as the story remains so simple, the actual plot is merely what happens along the way. Perhaps the hero comes across a village of vampires, or is captured by bandits. As a plot it's nothing more than a series of circumstances that the hero must face in order to accomplish her goal at the end. However, when considering such a story I instantly think,
"Perhaps it's revealed that the demon lord is actually that same hero, who has come back in time in order to rebel against the king, having stood by and watched as her homeland was destroyed under his corrupt rule?"
Suddenly, the purpose of the plot changes. Does the hero experience doubt? Does she feel guilty over the actions of her future self? Do her goals change along the way? This becomes the plot's purpose. It's about the development, where everything leads. The end is the outcome of an encompassing story, rather than the accomplishment of a simple goal that has been established and maintained since the beginning.
So the question is, where to strike the balance? Is it about the story as a whole, or individual scenarios tied together by a simple goal? A combination of both? I guess it all depends on how far your willing to take the story, and how important it really is to the game as a whole.
Anyhow, back to work.
...
Edit: And no, I don't need help with the story, or advice on creating one. This is just me thinking out loud. -_o
Suddenly, the purpose of the plot changes. Does the hero experience doubt? Does she feel guilty over the actions of her future self? Do her goals change along the way? This becomes the plot's purpose. It's about the development, where everything leads. The end is the outcome of an encompassing story, rather than the accomplishment of a simple goal that has been established and maintained since the beginning.
So the question is, where to strike the balance? Is it about the story as a whole, or individual scenarios tied together by a simple goal? A combination of both? I guess it all depends on how far your willing to take the story, and how important it really is to the game as a whole.
Anyhow, back to work.
...
Edit: And no, I don't need help with the story, or advice on creating one. This is just me thinking out loud. -_o
LOL, don't worry about the story as long as you have a main character concept and a setting, the story can be written as you go.
ReplyDeleteP.S.
even if that sprite has no meaning (right now at least), its still really awesome -_^
O and I just remembered this http://www.blender.org/ , don't know if you know about it or not but I thought I should share, if your ever planing on doing 3d stuff, not sure if the models created in this program can be used in game maker though...
DeleteAnyway good luck with your next project
I already use Maya, actually. It is possible to use 3d models in Game maker, but it's not really feasible.
DeleteI plan on learning Unity in my free time, though.
If I may share my opinion, try to limit 3d, at least in case of characters unless you'll get really wonderful at it. I've seen quite some H-or-not games where the idea was solid but creator messed the whole thing for me with rather bad characters ported from some easy to use but not really that aesthetically good H game poser. You, on the other hand, make really nice sprites so I'd rather have you stick to them for this time being.
DeleteI don't mean pre-rendered 3d, I mean actual 3d. Like so,
Deletehttp://playstationlifestyle.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/prinny-can-i-really-be-the-hero.jpg
That's what it would be like if it were game maker, anyway. With Unity I'd be doing a 3rd person action game. And no, I wouldn't use poser, I'd never use pre-made resources. Ever.
Regarding 3D: If you ever, EVER, honestly think about truthfully commiting to a 3D game, don't start "making" it, start playing around with the idea whilst doing something else in the meantime. Then, when the game is 50-60% done through pure "free time" work, should you commit to it.
Delete3D is a beast. A really big and savage one. With multiple heads. And tentacles. It will rape you if you're a beginner and take on a too big project.
I'm speaking from experience, I'm currently working on a 3D animation short that was initially gonna take me 3-5 months to finish; needless to say, pretty much everything I wanted to do was new to me, so 10 months later I still predict I'll be working on it 'til late summer or early autumn. And I'm quite surprized I still have the drive to keep working on it looking at all the setbacks I had.
Well, as I said it'd be in my free time. I don't plan on attempting to make a 3d game for a number of years. Even when I do, it'll be while still making 2d games full time.
DeleteAlso, I don't plan on doing anything with insane graphics. Think Megaman Legends Style, but slightly higher res graphics.
The thing about being the person who creates these idea's the first time around is something you should bring to light sooner rather than later. Sure the product may not be up to par with your skills down the road, but if giant game companies are able to take a classic game, reskin and tweek it and resell it back at the same price it was years before, you can too.
ReplyDeleteNow obviously, what I am getting at is not to be greedy but mainly saying that if later on you feel you can do the game better, you can always come back and redo or change the system later (maybe at charge of severely reduced for those who bought original)
First, I like those sprites, and I hope we get to see them someday!
ReplyDeleteSecond, I don't think that anyone here would mind seeing one or more sequels to your games, which would give you the option to start simple with the original game (e.g. Kurovadis, about as simple as it can get), and then expand into ideas you didn't get to express the first time around (e.g. Kurovadis with larger sprites, more CGs, some actual story, etc.)
Indie games with interesting/unique concetps can be quite impactful despite having design limitations. As long as your game has solid platforming, good H-content and entertaining gameplay, the sky's the limit as far as what you can do with the rest of it. If you're uncomfortable with trying something revolutionary, I'd hate for you force yourself to do it, but it's all about risk and reward anyhow.
ReplyDeleteI for one would be perfectly comfortable with you simply testing to waters with a platformer with larger sprites, a good story, and interesting characters. Humor would be a nice touch as well, as I'm sure you could come up with some nice dialogue, xD.
Those characters look great as well! And it seems you're starting to settle on something concrete to go on with. Any thoughts on having a virgin route? It's not really how I like to play h-games, but it would be interesting if there was an actual difference to the game depending on that status. Also, there could be resistances to sexual attacks. Really depends on how the mechanics work. Anyway, I'm liking what I see so I'll await the next update.
ReplyDeleteDon't let the assholes deter you for critiquing your posting methods. As long as you're not posting "it'll be out next month," every month (Iris Action), and development is proved to be coming along, I give no fucks and will genuinely buy the game like I did with Kurovadis; Iris Action, however, is tempting me to pirate it at this point out of fear of it being shit and him realizing it (every other shit game that had potential).
ReplyDeleteThere are plenty of people out there who will help you with a very linear story, and even anonymously.
Man I hope they at least make a updated demo. It'll be sad if those wolfenstahl people manage to beat them at releasing their game. I think with release dates you should give an extra month than you think it would take. However I can't read Japanese so maybe life is just being inconvenient to him.
DeleteConsidering it was originally supposed to be released in February, I think it's more him freaking out and thinking the quality isn't right to be paid for, thus he's worried about income. Whether he's rightfully worried or not is yet to be seen; the demo was amazing, but the rest of the game could very well be shit.
DeleteA lot of game developers tend to make a list of sorts that draws a line and says "This is it, this is all we're going to do," in order to prevent this kind of problem. It's very much true that in the meeting room, there's a lot of interesting ideas thrown about to improve the quality of any given game, but to take all of those ideas, because they're good, and apply them to the project would mean that you'd end up with a game that has a million different aspects to it and would take way too long to feasibly complete within a reasonable time frame.
ReplyDeleteIt's impossible to include every single 'good' idea you may come up with and combine it into a single, whole, complete game, and that's frustrating for a lot of game designers. The solution is simply to decide what to put in and then do it, but that's easier said than done.
I speak from personal experience using various Role Playing tools similar to Maptools, and designing custom made game systems, story, and level design, so forgive me if I'm ignorant of the difference between the two, but that's been my experience so far, is just deciding: "What is enough? When do I need to draw the line?"
Well, that's the gist of what I was saying more or less. I'm going to use a simple premise and a series of events, rather than trying to do an all-out story. This will be my first time integrating any story into a game at all, after all. (and finishing it.)
Deletelet's put it this way -
ReplyDeleteKurovadis had no story. How many copies did you sell again?
Instead of making an intricate plot, do something simple. Time travel is too complex.
Magic is cool. Add magic, some H-stuff and BOOM. game! Just go with it.
Maybe you should sit down, write a plotline, and no matter WHAT, just go with it.
Maybe make some changes if they're needed, but we just want something. Anything.
...This has been bugging me for a while, but... are you the type to "like where this is going", or am I thinking of a different ninja by that name?
DeleteIf you come up with a really good plot, just go with it ! Nothing prevents you from redoing the game better after a while, by popular demand, even.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who has 100 different things on in my mind at once I got to say I wish I didn't have an abundance of ideas. However, it can have it's advantages.
ReplyDeleteI think for stories it's a combination of both though leaning more on the sequence of scenarios that link into the bigger picture. I think the best way to go would be to just lay down I simplistic foundation and then build on top of that. The foundation would be the one thing that will have little to no modification in the story. Everything, else however is fair game.
Like on the story for a game that I wanna do, after I work on improving my tablet skills a bit and learning GM, I have changed everything about 5 times with the exception of the main setting and the reason for fighting. As I changed the story around everything just begins to fit and I realized that it just kind of got a mind of it's own. (I can't explain it really maybe I think about it when I'm not thinking about it... I can't explain that either -_-;) However, what I want to do is still a massive undertaking for someone with no experience. So I decided I'm just going to learn and do it at the same time. I already know that I will probably not be 100% satisfied, but it's better than just letting the idea just sit and rot. Now all I can think of is that Dreams Deffered poem.
I like the little quips with you going back and forth with yourself makes me feel like I'm the only one who can have a whole conversation with oneself.
Tbh i was very impressed with your work on kurodavis an with each new thing the skill should come as you go. So just keep at it. You'll get where you want to be with time.
ReplyDeleteI hope you use the red haired (samurai?) girl in your last post, i really like her design. Though all of your designs are well made, i like her the best. Keep up the good work!
ReplyDeleteUgh don't know how much this will help, but might as well try.
ReplyDelete1 - look how other people have written and presented their story in their game.
2 - you could have one game that has the hero who stops the demon lord and another game that you play as another hero who stops the new demon lord/former hero. Simply said you could extend story to multiple games.
3 - I can't help you, I'm not you.
4 - In the end we are still going to buy it.
5 - Save those sprites you keep showing us since you could use them later.
nice boat,i mean..nice story
ReplyDeleteFor me, it all depends what kind of story I want to tell, about what elements, with what kind of feelings contained in it. Sometimes, good story IS a simple one, and for example in the example provided by you, the twist with the big bad being heroine traveling in time would hurt the plot for me a bit. Don't try to add complexity for the sake of it but consider whether and how it develops the story.
ReplyDeleteAs for your general approach toward wonderful ideas - from what I've seen, it's not that unique but most people indeed go about it a lil bit different - most who will make some wonderful story try to go with creation of things that would make the dream game with said story and then either fail and have to downsize or drop the work losing that spark that was driven them when faced with obstacles along the way.
You have a point about how much story driven the game is and what importance nicely developed story has then. Consider your earlier game - there was practically no plot but since the assumed and main goal of getting out of the base the heroine wakes up at didn't need much of a story, it was all fine and lot of people had fun with it anyway. Although it doesn't mean that if, for example, you'll ever make full fledged (hopefully though, still H) RPG with multitude of character builds, optional content, several different ways to complete each quest and general open-world, it will have to have a story worth an encyclopedia together with it's own geography and languages that would make Tolkien amazed if he'd still be alive. Lore also shouldn't be force fed to the player although it could be improved and increased as the plot demands it. Personally, I'd rather avoid some plot elements and explanations in some games where said elements possess some flaws making the thing ridiculous, just don't fit my taste or really affect suspension of disbelief (well, yeah, H-RPG or not I'd like to be immersed in it and while in theory complex, cohesive and coherent 'fluff' should add to that, sometimes character plain claiming 'I don't know how that works/is' or some thing staying enigmatic is so much better.
Really happy that You Update the blog , thought it will be another month to see another news.
ReplyDeleteI don't think this whole story concept is necesary
I mean , look at Kurovadis , it has no story.
But it was quite succesfull right?
Instead of implementing a story to Your new Project , You should more focussing on the gameplay and the graphic.
Make it challenging like Kuro , add LvL and difficulty. Like Superhard/Nightmare/Heaven or Hell <1 hit kill , and die by 1 hit>
As for the sprite , improve more. Add a lot of CG. Gallery Mode , save option/password.
As long as it's simple , fun , challenging.
It might be surpassed KuroVadis.
Sry 4 bad engrisshhh~
I like this anon's approach. I really hope you're focusing on how to make the game interesting in terms of gameplay. Story is nice, but it's secondary. Great level design and play mechanics is what will appeal the most. Good luck, Kyrieru
DeleteI'd say it depends on the game. In some, story is AS important as any other the most vital element one could think of. Fortunately, this one doesn't have to be such a game so you can indeed concentrate on having better levels than what we had in Kurovadis (especially optional parts of the map were really undeveloped, usually being just gauntlet of traps going through corridor with some power-up at the end).
DeleteAt first, I was kinda irked that it was a general "Vs Demon King Guy" story, but as I read on, I really liked your twist on it. It sounds like a cliche at first, so why not play on it? Should the game have dialogue, lampshade the hell out of it, have some fun with it.
ReplyDeleteThe question is, though... when would the big reveal be? If it's at the end, I think that might be too late. But having it in the middle gives time for the character to grow those seeds of doubt - perhaps even multiple endings could result depending on player choices.
Anywho, loving the sprites you're posting, the one with the white blouse in particular. Keep up the good work.
Well, tastes differ but in case you take people's opinions into consideration I'd like to say I quite much dislike that twist and would rather see some advanced plot lines when you'll make some non-linear RPG. The game, in this regard does not require complexity as it's not what most people get it for. Relative success of Kurovadis being a great example.
DeleteStill, such a twist is better than your typical boring normal "Vs Demon King" story. That's been done to death, so it just feels like a very cheap route to take with the story. Having a twist where it's not actually a demon king, but simply called that by the people? And then another twist where they're actually a force trying to stop disaster?
DeleteKinda reminds me of Golden Sun, honestly, where it turns out the villains were trying desperately to save the world. Oops, nice job breaking it hero.
A twist like that is something I'd like, where it's more of a subversion of the trope, rather than your common cookie cutter demon king story.
Trying to shoehorn a complex story into a simple game would probably have proven to be little more than a hindrance. But I definitely support the inclusion of a simple story. Especially if it's the precursor to more complex storylines in the future. Right now though, a little graphical jump and the smallest amount of in-game direction should be well received by most everyone.
ReplyDeleteAnother observation, I've been trekking the net for games similar to KuroVadis since I stumbled upon it. But alas, (poor Yorick) the only games comparable are some of the ones you've linked to in your blog and they're still under development. My point being, your style already stands out..in a very good way. Unholy Sanctuary comes rather close, but it's linearity hurts it a bit IMHO. I would love to see sprites that size in your new game, though. And the 0 HP H-Scene Cut Aways would be a fantastic addition as well.
Lovin' the hair and the outfit on the new sprite, BTW.
I guess I would make it a generic adventure story, with just the PC traveling around, and then a bunch of separate self contained stories that happen along the way.
ReplyDeleteAhh, story can really be a tough thing to do well.
ReplyDeleteOh by the way, have you thought about doing a kickstarter and whatnot?
It sounds like something that could be of some help!
Nah, I don't need to so a kickstarter. I make money from sales, and that's what funds future development.
DeleteAs I read what you are planing for a story I felt that you were over thinking the matter.
DeleteThe first example you put were your character "the hero" has a charge from her king to kill a demon would do just fine and in truth would actually fit the plot of any game.
I'm not a writer or a story teller by any stretch but I'm fairly certain that If you keep things relativity simple and straight forward then you won't get your self in a bind.
At any rate you should worry about making things to complicated with any story you go with, that's what sequels are for ;-).
on a different matter what happened with that other game you were working on? I'd be interested in seeing what become of that.
ant any rate I'm looking forward to seeing were you go with this project.
That's not what the story is, that was just an example of a simple story, and the first thing that comes to mind for a twist.
DeleteIf I was going to have a twist in a story, I wouldn't post about it, haha.
sorry i meant to say you should not worry to much about making things to complicated as story's develop and that's why I suggested sequels in my above post.
Deletea sequel would be a good place were you could expand on the story that you chose to tell in one game and not have it impact majorly in the events or idea's of the game that you are working on at the moment. a basic outline, like a story map, is what you would need.
eg
event A;
Villager or wondering band of hero's finds something witch leads to the release of the demon or monsters,
event B; the demon may capture, kill or posses the ones who released him, which could lead on to the demon, his monsters and his new henchmen (if he poses them) to attacking, villages, towns, forts and so on.
witch would lead to event C;
the king telling the hero go kick A** and chew gum, which is where the hero starts her quest. or you could have the demon's men attack the hero's home and family and the hero swears revenge.
the story doesn't need to be complicated in the begging, keep it simple and see were it leads.
sorry for ranting like a loony. :-p
did you do finish the other game from awhile ago that you were working on? I'm sorry to ask here, I'm not sure were else to put that question on this site.
ReplyDeletenever mind I think I found it lol.
DeleteSo...It's like "Oh god here we go again..."?
ReplyDeleteNah, cause now I actually know what it takes to finish a game. I'd much rather delay myself by a week or two than regret mistakes I made just because I just started something random and went with it.
DeleteNot that it matters, because I've already decided on something.
Her sword looks a lot like Takumi's incomplete Futsu-no-Mitama from Battle Moon Wars. I love blocky swords! It's like you take a sword, and a club, and you make a sword-club!
ReplyDeleteif you want storyline, try playing Cave Story. There's barely any text, but storyline/plot is fantastic. Then you have the secret Hell level at the end, which made the game perfect. It was a free game, but was so popular that they started selling it.
ReplyDeleteStory is more than just writing - even gameplay can tell narrative. As can the art, and the music. Remember how empty it seemed in the first area of Kurovadis? Even the music seemed kind of dissonant. Some places had no music at all. There's a reason - and that reason is that more than just writing tells the story. Everything about a game does. So you make a good point in pointing out Cave Story for a storyline.
DeleteSince these are video games, IMO, the biggest emphasis on storyline needs to be in the gameplay. Text needs to be fluid, but also to the point. Gameplay, atmosphere (both graphical, ambient sounds, and musical), even how the character struggles to not be raped, these should be a bigger part of the narrative. They should do a better job of telling the story and characterization than the text and writing - that stuff is there only to supplement the gameplay (or at least, it should).
As long as good sprite H animations and crisp gameplay mechanics, story can be shoehorned in, or let the player make up their own.
ReplyDeletedont' care about stories as long there is consentual Hentai scenes :)
ReplyDeleteI don't care if there are consensual hentai scenes. Just as long as there is RAPE, RAPE, and oh yeah, RAPE.
Delete← Anxiously awaiting a confirmed sprite..and possibly some attack animations?
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't mind a preview of an enemy or two either.
Oh and BTW Revan, if consensual-H is what you're after, this game probably isn't for you.
Play KuroVadis (assuming you haven't already) and you'll understand.
Yeah , need an update status again
ReplyDeleteShow us your official character
As Velyus says , a little preview wouldn't hurt isn't it
Sry 4 bad engrish~
Guys, don't push on Kyrieru too much, from how he describes himself
ReplyDeletehe has an artist spirit. He will show us what he wants to show us
when he wants to show us, nothing more. Even if I'd like that'd be
a shitload of stuff and ASAP, just give him his time.
People sure are impatient this time around...
ReplyDeleteI think it's less impatience, and more eagerness. After how awesome Kurovadis was, we're eager to see what's next. There's also the rate of updates people were used to back then, which are probably a bit slower now due to him focusing more on the game development and less on the blogging. I ask that you guys be a bit patient with the impatience, it should wear off a bit once more news starts to roll in. Until then, look at it this way - people posting and asking for news is a clear sign of support of what Kyrieru is doing.
DeleteYou have a very interesting imagination. I am looking forward to your future games.
ReplyDeleteYa really, what would happen if someone was making you a pizza and 2 min after it goes in the oven you ask to serve... it would be mostly raw and look like crap.... let the man do his thing, and enjoy fully when done!
ReplyDeleteFor the record, I was simply stating what I hope will be in the next update.
ReplyDeleteI was expressing continued interest, nothing more.
By no means was I demanding an update.
I cannot speak for the anon, though.
Yea , we aren't demand any update
DeleteWhat I mean is updating the blog , give status or any thing
Not the whole game.
Updating the blog every litle while is enough , like once a week / once every 2 week.
Bad Engrish , I know....
Leave the guy alone. Based on Kurovadis, we can expect a damn good game, regardless of whether or not he updates his blog. Kurovadis was amazing and now he has the motivation of being paid to do even more with this one.
ReplyDeleteNot trying to sound like a jerk but you don't seem very interested in the actual hentai part of these hentai games. I got this feel playing the Crimson Brave and Kurovadis demos, they work really well as games but the hentai feels like an afterthought, like you don't care much about it. Don't get me wrong, unlike every other clown with a blog it looks like you really know your stuff and can actually plan and deliver a great game, I'm particularly impressed with your sprite work and controls, BUT the hentai isn't an integral part of your games.
ReplyDeleteSo are you actually interested in this stuff or are you just doing it because people are usually starving for hentai games? Nothing wrong with that btw, just curious.
ps: I don't like that press up to roll thing, I play with a stick and it's easy to trigger it accidentally.
Yeah... if the game's not fun to play, it doesn't matter at all how hot the action is. If it's a crap game, I'll just have someone rip the CG and call it a day. I wanna play a fun game, one that isn't your average every day eroge. And to do that, you need to focus more on the game than on the smut.
DeleteGraphics, design, music, sound, control.. all of it is more important to me than H content because those are the things that make a great game, regardless of it's genre. Even when I make games with more H-content/themes than Kurovadis, or some more H oriented gameplay mechanics, I'll still value the overall gameplay experience over the overall hentai experience. It's what I prefer when I play other action H games, so it's what I strive to accomplish.
ReplyDeleteKyrieru raises a valid point. Kurovadis would not have been as great had he made is specifically for the porn. But the game was genuinely good because he wanted it good.
DeleteI agree. This principle of Kyrierus' concentrates on the very essence of a 2D-platformer (the gameplay!) and should be what drives a good game towards completion (provided the drive lasts). Kyrieru is raising the bar pretty high, I could only hope to catch up one day.
DeleteWhy do people think that the more H focus the worse the gameplay has to be?
ReplyDeleteWhat I mean is this: An H-game that is designed with the adult content in mind will be a great "H-game", sure, but a game focused more on good gameplay and less on H-content will still a great "game", even if the H content isn't the focus.
DeleteOn the other hand, a game that neglects non-H related elements too much will fall flat as both a regular game, AND an H-game, even if the H is good. At that point it's just porn with baggage.
I'm just saying that the foundations of what make a game good are more important, not that you can't integrate H-content into gameplay. Best case scenario you have enough time to make both aspects of the game great.
I like the way you think
ReplyDeleteThe no credit check needed loans are those that are given from the lenders with no credit check
ReplyDeleteneeded process http://0ab.fr/1hus
if an individual can lower its risk for the financial institution then it adds to
the chances of getting approval for your loan applied.