There's something I was thinking about today that I struggled with around the time I released Kurovadis. The question of whether or not I should release all-ages versions of the games I make.
On the surface, it seems as though there's no real reason why I shouldn't. Some people really enjoyed Kurovadis, but wish that there was an all-ages version that they could show to people who don't like certain content.
However, what happens when you search "Kurovadis" on google? Assuming you have safe search turned off, the first result is hentai from the game, or a link to my blog. In other words, it doesn't take very long for you to realize what the content of the game is. This may not sound like much of a problem to you, since chances are you're fine with H content. However, imagine if you played a great indie game, only to discover that in the original game there was a lot of brutal racist content, or something that you saw as morally reprehensible on a personal level. Chances are that's the way some people might feel.
So, what would you do? Would you release the all-ages game under the same name as the adult version? In the all-ages version, would you make it immediately obvious that although not 18+, it's still associated with adult content? Or do you think it's better left as an 18+ game, but with an in-game option that allows you to disable all 18+ content?
For a game like Kurovadis I think releasing it as an all-ages, but with a disclaimer that it's associated with adult content would be fine. Or releasing it under a different name.
ReplyDeleteI mean, personally, I wouldn't really care if a game I was playing had certain aspects removed from it. That just means that the developer understood that the additional content would be offensive to some of his/her audience. As long as the game doesn't lose anything, which Kurovadis wouldn't, then it's all fine for me.
That being said, there is some stigma attached to any 18+ game. As soon as there is adult content associated with a game or anything really, even a novel, the adult content is what the masses will focus on.
If I were to show Kurovadis to my friends, it wouldn't be the gameplay they'd focus on, but rather as soon as Kuro's knocked down, bam I've got their attention.
I think that all-age versions works when the adult content is quite light (like FSN, also releasing RN on PS2 helped a lot). In Kurovadis, even if the adult content only happens after being knocked down, it's still rape. What I mean is that Kurovadis would always be associated to rape.
ReplyDeleteThe best option would be either to make a different game, or to have a second blog dedicated to the all-age versions.
I think it's probably too late to give Kurvadis the all-ages treatment, unless you released the new version with a different name. However, even if you were to release two versions of a game, searching for the all-ages version would still, to some extent, indirectly lead people to the 18+ version.
ReplyDeleteI would like to see you get more attention because your work is really nice, but I also think if you were to try to do all-ages versions of H-games you would set yourself up for a lot of negative attention.
different name = different game as far as any third party is concerned...
ReplyDeleteAt least until some guy walks up, takes one look and says "hey, this is just a rip-of of _________ but without all the ________"
DeleteThen it all goes silly from there.
Kurovadis
ReplyDeleteKurostar
yeah re-name it
ReplyDeletelol... you kinda have always the same things on your mind that I have on mine xD
ReplyDeletewell, if I wasn't about to go to bed right now, I would have written a longer comment on this.
so... to keep it short:
I think this a very important matter, so I thought about this quite throughly myself.
one solution I came up with was picking a different name for the adult version.
on the other hand... I'm actually a straight-forward person, and I don't care about, if people find out that a non-hentai game has a different version with hentai on it.
to tell you the truth, I was working with several (non-hentai) anime-communities already, and I found out that nearly everyone who's familiar with anime, is also familiar with hentai.
(more or less)
I think, as long as people are interested in your game as an "anime game", most of them won't care that there is a version with hentai content.
the good point in seperating stuff is, that there might be people who are aware that there is a hentai version, but in case they don't like it, they'll be glad to be able to play a non-hentai version of it ^^
~Wolfenstahl~
P.S:
in case you like to have a more complex conversation with me on this topic, I would be happy to exchange pn's with you on the ulmf board.
That is something I ask myself often.
ReplyDeleteThing with h-game content, esp. with games that are far more interactive than a visual novel, is that it's generally more ingrained and potentially inseparable with a game design's DNA. I guess you need to ask yourself where you have to draw a line between mechanics and h. I feel the sad effect of that is that once you DO draw a line...you close yourself from exploring a genre that really still feels like it's in its infantile stages. There's obviously going to be money there when people realize what you've done to the genre, but it really boils down to whether you're interested, happy or/and comfortable with what you're doing. IMO it's a frightening venture for many reasons, but something I really want to experiment with too.
It'll be interesting to see a game where the h-content is essential to the experience as opposed to just being static filler.
Also I feel the idea of having a different title and game outlet can only do so much, but anything is better than nothing. The rest is that your work will speak for itself.
So yeah, that's my thoughts.
Btw, is your email fine now?
Nope -__-
DeleteDon't make it all ages. Make another game for that, or another title. Purity in H or non-H.
ReplyDeleteIn that situation, I would give the all-ages version a subtitle to differentiate it, but still associated with the 18+ version. For example, Kurovadis: Notrape Edition. Probably some more thought would have to be given to the subtitle, of course, but that's the general idea. xD
ReplyDeleteI think it's best to keep it known that it's associated with the adult content, otherwise the whole googling situation is likely and you don't want to shock people like that. <-<;
There will be conflicts with either option you chose, but a lot of great visual novels such as Muv-Luv, Little Busters ect, have different versions with successes.... Mind you this is NA and we seem to have a lot of lame trolling on fictional content that rights activists count as reality and think it should be censored.
ReplyDeleteMy idea (if I ever release a game) is to release the PC version with adult content version and if the game makes it big enough then release it for a portable or consul with the adult content removed (things should open up to indi devs when "oh ya" comes out), I'm personally not a fan of censorship though.
I'd just make sure that you have the adult disclaimer on the game with the adult content just to cut out the arguments.... even that disclaimer that says the characters are over 18... seriously.. how do you put an age on someone or something that doesn't even exist? I guess they have to give something for the trolls to eat.... I'm one of the people that cried when I found out one of my all time fav games Bionic Commando was horribly "censored". If you cant stand the sight of porn you should probably not be on the internet or your parents should reserve "big brother time", the way I see it. k I know I'm getting off topic on a no censorship rant.
Personally though after all that's said and done you should do what you feel is right, if you think you can get a market for a all ages release then you should go for it, even if you get a bad rap I don't think it'll really matter as most for your fans are pervs anyway ^_^
In-game option (with parental password lock) to disable the adult content. If a kid has unsupervised access to the internet, s/he has already seen much worse than what s/he would find when googling your games.
ReplyDeleteI was showing a few friends the game, I praised the controls and the gameplay, and did mention that it is a hentai game. Overall, they were amazed with how the gameplay and controls were more than the hentai footage. Hell, I introduced the game to a girl I knew and she seemed amazed at the game too, even after telling her is was a hentai game.
ReplyDeleteWith all honesty, I think others who watch hentai that's rape aside from myself know rape in itself is wrong. Am I the only one who watches it but still has a little bit of conscious nagging me?
On another note, I think the idea of a subtitle for the title with a disclaimer would be the way to go.
there are allot of anime that start as a visual novels with 18+ content, fates day night. some artists behind popular graphic novels like Scott pilgrim have made pornographic art and no one cares. Japanese games with hentai content sometimes get a second version released on consoles that has hentai content removed. the things your worrying about are shitty western culture fear of sex, don't fear anything, it is just entertainment.
ReplyDeleteTsukihime got a Non-H anime.
DeleteConsidering what a gem the gameplay on kurovadis is i personally would love to see all-ages version put out, maybe like try to get it into steam through their greenlight program and id bet there would be quite a bunch who would like it. As for letting people know that its based on a h-game i got no clue how to go around that since i would take my wild guess that, say for example you shoved it onto steams greenlight, it probably wouldnt take long before someone would spill the beans on the matter on the games comment section. So i guess that it would end up being better to say it outright that its based on a h-game and just see what happens though it might have a small effect on the sales of the all-ages version while due to the increased pr you would get with that, it might actually boost the h-versions sales, though thats only my rough guess. :[
ReplyDeletewhatever you end up doing i hope it goes well!
wall-o-messy text ho! should try to do these kinda things when youve just woken up =_=
DeleteOn the other hand, the intersect between people who take offense from Adult games, and people who visit the comment sections of indie Steam games is pretty small, I wager.
DeleteTim Schaeffer did something similar with "Brutal Legend". Since he knew adults would want to play the game with their kids he gave you the option to censor all the cussing and remove all the gore. Of course my teenage nephews played with the cussing and gore on anyway! lol!
ReplyDeleteBut for me, the bigger point is you changing your work to get broader appeal. If the issue wasn't h content, what would you do? If your games had, say, a socialist message you believed in, would you censor it so apolitical gamers could enjoy it? Do you think Bioshock should have its take on objectivism removed and made more accessible because some fans think it slams their philosophy? As a creative person, I too have to make those choices. No easy answers, but maybe something to chew on.
*sigh* I think about this so much as well :(
ReplyDeleteThe thing is I really don't think there's any escaping the history of your game so doing something like changing the name might only upset people more when/if they find out the history. Personally I think the least anger inducing way to go would probably be to make it clear that the game used to be hentai from the getgo, but even that's not a very good answer because then you'll loose allot of sales and we really want you to make money.
You need to consider who you are targeting with your game. If the game contains H material, then unfortunately you will need to cater to them the most. I know that puts a lot of great gameplay out of the reach of some potential players, but it's not a fun choice to make. Take those great gameplay ideas, and put them towards a new and different game, one that doesn't have hentai. I'm afraid that although the greatest H-games are ones that blend the realms of hentai and non-hentai games, they will never reach the other market. As far as taboo's go in videogames, the biggest thing to avoid if you want to reach the non hentai crowd is sex. You can often get away with some revealing things, but even GTA couldn't get away with any real sex scenes. It's just frowned upon, so you have to cater to one community or the other.
ReplyDelete~Baron
You should rename your H version Director's Cut, and try to release your game on Steam as just Kurovadis.
ReplyDeleteWitcher got tons of sales, and even a second release, even though "everyone" knows the director''s cut has nudity, sex and prostitution.
If your (lite) game has a de facto M-rating SOMEHOW (there's no sex anymore, so what's there to object), it's in the same standing as most other games on Steam.
I mean, c'mon. Most people who buy stuff on steam are not ignorant to the fact that hentai exist. People know it exists. Any co-relation isn't going to shock audience.
Just don't try to sell it as an E-rated game, lol. Sell it as a retro-platformer, and that's it.
I'd have to agree with a different tag or slightly edited name. no end of eroges were releaced on consoles after having the H content cut out so it's not an unknown idea, at least in japan and thus the anime community.
ReplyDeleteThe anime fate/Stay night is derived from an eroge visual novel for example, at least one of the disgaea series artists started on hentai and the american releace of Mugen Souls had the bathing minigame removed to avoid an AO rating as another slightly less extreme example, and non of them were hurt by the link.
And I myself thought that kurovadis would sell well as an indie game if it had the sex cut out. so you might be onto a winner.
Here's where I am:
ReplyDeleteI know a good bit of people who are obsessed with Metroidvania style games...and from a gameplay standpoint, I think would really enjoy it. It's kinda rare for something like this to be good.
But...they definitely wouldn't like it with the type of content that's in it.
So if you do make a non-H version that's reasonably disconnected (maybe titled Vadis?), I'd be showing it to all of them right away xD
And I think that's probably the case with more people.
And for $5? This would probably skyrocket on Steam.
Someone suggested the name Kurostar, I think that works nicely.
ReplyDeleteThat, plus a disclaimer, should be fine.
I don't think you're going to get away with offended people not being offended by the content of the original game, no matter what you do; but a different name makes it harder for kids to search the original, and people who don't like to look at that stuff don't have to.
Out of curiosity, what would you replace the grapples with?
Nothing, they just wouldn't be there.
DeleteI don't think that association is that a big deal. Yes, many people who will reach for all-ages version will know it's a hentai game by default but the idea of trying to hide it from them has little of a chance of success. Still, it doesn't mean that players (or at least those mature ones) will really care - if they got all-age version it's because they want to play this kind of game just without H element and just because there's different version with H element won't really change the version they've chosen.
ReplyDeleteSure, it may make some of those obnoxious gossipers wet their pants out of joy a little as they'll have a hook on a game to drag it down as a pit of perversity etc. But again, if the game is good and interesting anyway, no decent player will care.
Hell, look even at the big, commercial titles. Sooner or later someone makes porn conversion of new TES game. Those who want get it and play it, those who don't want such, play without downloading it and all are happy.
I'd generally say that options are always nice and if it doesn't require too much effort or costs to allow no-H version then why not?
good point there, totally forgot about how big the adult modding community for TES games were, sure this game might do it the other way around but i agree it shouldnt really make much of a difference.
Deletespeaking of which kyrieru did you have any preliminary plans on where you would publish the all-ages version? personally i wouldnt mind seeing it put on the steam's greenlight program for indie developers :P
Change the name and release two versions. This will help you maintain income from the game and increase your audience.
ReplyDeleteIf I imagine myself in this situation, I feel I would decide against two versions of my game.
ReplyDeleteOne aspect is that it increases the chance of my game ending up in the hands of people who would be offended by the H content. This could lead to all kinds of ugly fallout. I'd feel safer if the game remained in its niche market.
I also would want to incorporate the adult aspects into the gameplay and story, too. Kurovadis elegantly danced around this, the game would work perfectly without it, but I can imagine a whole array of ways to integrate adult stuff into a game in a way that would require intrusive changes to make an all-ages version.
So for me it would probably end up being a decision between how badly I need the additional sales and how many compromises I'm willing to accept into my game :)
I've started speedrunning the game but I can't submit my efforts to any recognized speedrunning organization because the game itself contains adult content.
ReplyDeleteChange the game-over graphics, most of the grapple animations (I think the succubus one is fine as-is, ironically), the boss-loss animations, and the various questionable sounds, then release it under a new name. Perhaps Shirovardis? Importantly, keep the changes strictly to graphics and sound. Gameplay has to stay identical between the two variants.
Everybody who buys Kurovardis gets the PG-13 version packaged with it, but people who buy the PG-13 version only get that.
If it`s a game as simple (kinda xD) as kurovadis you could make some aesthetic changes like the color of the character pallete and release with a diferent name, story and that stuff. You could also make a pseudonym of yours to release those all ages games (like carlrieru xD), also good luck man.
ReplyDeleteNah, my pseudonym is Rukyrie.
DeleteI've thought about this a few times, wanting to show kurovadis to a sibling who would like its megaman x-ness. I know he plays eroge already but it would be sort of awkward to show your brother something you wank to.
ReplyDeleteMaking non r-18 versions might be ok if it was portrayed as an unsupported third party addition or something, but there's not much you could do to get around the existence of official ero content. Being able to disable it would only really help people who play games in semi public places and wouldn't want to offend people or be looked down on.
If you released altered clean versions, it would probably be ok. No one would stop playing a good game because a different version of had ero content. It would probably still prevent people giving it word of mouth on facebook or twitter or something unless the name and aesthetics were altered a lot. However, I definitely would never have found kurovadis if it wasn't an eroge; well-made fun to play hentai games that are actually finished (wmhgtaaf) are really uncommon, and that generates its own sort of rabid following.
Why not make more or less the same game, a different lead character, removed the H, rename it, bam, all ages version?
ReplyDeleteI agree with the fellows that are saying that the more you think about how you would not have the ero content in the game, the less you consider how you can effectively use ero content to make the eroge. A good eroge should have good gameplay and good ero, individually. A GREAT eroge should not be able to survive without either.
ReplyDeleteIf you concern yourself with how to eliminate one while selling the other, it may be that you should just leave off one. You can always alternate between making bread winning non-ero games, selling them to the adoring masses, and making eroge as a sideline, for fun and erotainment. The trap in THAT is that when you begin realizing that one is making you more money than the other, and that it's tiring to switch between creation modes... welllllll.
You end up stopping making eroge, which with your talent would be a sore loss for that industry. But this is about you and your success, so do what is best for you and your work.
"A good eroge should have good gameplay and good ero, individually. A GREAT eroge should not be able to survive without either."
DeleteNo, this is just out-and-out wrong. You probably think that way because most eroge are focused on the porn and are just outright terrible at being games. This isn't one of those.
A good game stands on its own merits and not social or graphical trappings. They can improve a good game into a great game, but if a game can't survive without them then it's bad at being a game.
As a game Kurovadis is pretty darn good. The ero content makes it more appealing to some, but is fairly superfluous.
Also? Kyrieru made this as a hobby. He did it because he wanted to, not just because there was a profit in it.
I agree with the first post. If you want make games professionally, theres choises to be made and not much middle ground. How many high production quality porn games have you seen ever? I haven't seen a single one. Not even from asia. And don't give me examples like Illusion games. They aren't quality even compared to mainstream low budget indie games.
DeleteThere's not much any mainstream games that's showing even bare bewbs, but heads are rolling and guts are spilling in every second game. Nudity is such a huge tabu in game industry. It's much bigger than in film industry.
People tend to choose the route where life will possibly be much easier. That's usually the sort of work they can show to their relatives and rest of the society. This is pretty important for career progress.
Side projects is a different topic. If you dont plan to get a life then you might have time to have side projects, unless you just become very rich and have a lot of free time.
If you do, then i recommend using totally different alias for the ero stuff and safe stuff. It can impact a career if you made a game for kiddies and they accidentally find your porn by googling your name.
Tho by looking at the huge lack any quality in adult game industry i see pretty good opportunity.
If you're making an eroge, then the gameplay cannot be separated from the ero content. There is no middle ground. If you make a game with good gameplay, and then tack on ero content at the end, it's just a tease. It lacks sufficient interplay between what you do, and the way the ero content is presented and enjoyed. You save the princess, or are scripted to fail, and a scene happens of its own accord. No fun. It's not good ero content.
DeleteIf you make a game with good ero content, but it lacks gameplay, then it is not a good ero game for its gameplay. It's probably just a glorified mini-game setup, which does not serve to benefit the ero content presented. Usually, such games merely throw in filler to BLOCK you getting to ero content, essentially copying from MMORPG'uhs by making you do boring work for what is essentially a CG set. This is why most ero content follows the traditional novel format with predetermined choices. You're not going to bother to try to make an enjoyable session out of it, so why make the user sit through it?
Kurovadis is on the far side of "good gameplay, mostly teasing," saved by the fact that it has rape as a consequence of situational failure, and manages to connect your failures to the end result of your current struggle via CG art linked to who you fail against. Lacking a fleshed story, it conveys its content through the aforementioned means. Because it is a damn good game for the market, and shows polish and potential, one can forgive its limited ero content and hope for an improvement in not only the future gameplay, but the ero content.
You cannot take the ero out of eroge, just as you can't take the ge out of ero. It's an erotic game. If you don't have good gameplay that somehow links up with good eroticism, then you still have room for improvement. And there are good eroge out there. For all its many failures, AliceSoft and similar companies at least try to merge your wins/failures in the game with the content you can experience. They do not stop simply at "choice A, finish game start over, choice b repeat," but actually penalize you for failing to do things well, and reward (or sometimes punish) you for doing well. Were they to introduce ero content into the actual gameplay itself, it would be very nice.
Some DLsite games have made inroads into that idea, at least trying to break through. Kuro sounds like he's wondering what the most worthwhile path is: to focus on the gameplay and keep the sex, or drop the sex and go gameplay. If you want to be the boss and make something wonderful, sometimes you can't neglect either.
-Kuro, +Kyrieru. I am smert.
DeleteI don't think things are as black and white as saying that either a) the gameplay is bad and therefore the H content is the sole quality of the game or b) the gameplay is good, thus the H content is optional.
DeleteKurovadis certainly fits category b), but from my point of view, adult content can be a game-defining element, just like a game's story or setting.
If the gameplay mechanics are good, does the story become optional? Could you take "Dead Space" for example, keep the gameplay mechanics, but make the character a friendly guy running around a fair with a hair dryer helping people who have gotten water on their limbs?
Now take MitsukoX/SpaceEscape (link is in Kyrieru's blogroll) - it has an arousal meter that controls how accepting the heroine is of certain "struggles" - replacing that with an all-ages equivalent would be quite a piece of work, I think.
Or if a game had romance, sex and pregnancy as part of its game mechanics, what will it be replaced with? It's easy to forget that adult content has lots of possibilities and depth, too, given the timid treatment it gets in most games :)
Dead Space had a story? /sarc
DeleteIf it's a good game, you can't just start subtracting the elements that make it a good game and expect it to work out for the better. And adult content has tons of possibilities. People are just too wishy-washy in using it.
I wouldn't make totally different version of Kurovadis. Just make some setting in the game where you can disable adult content if someone wants it. There's no point trying to hide the porn because people will find it anyway from google.
ReplyDeletea setting that would change the H would not really help the problem. what you should do, is change the name, and make a new site just for it. so we can play the H version, which only H communities would know about, while our friends would only know about the porn free version. if they searched up the nice name for it, theres no way that off the bat they would see "new name is really Kurovadis!". they could only find out if they were looking purposly through some H forums.
ReplyDeleteI think you should just tell everyone your game is for all ages and secretly include all the H stuff. I mean why stop the corruption...
ReplyDelete"So, what would you do? Would you release the all-ages game under the same name as the adult version? In the all-ages version, would you make it immediately obvious that although not 18+, it's still associated with adult content? Or do you think it's better left as an 18+ game, but with an in-game option that allows you to disable all 18+ content?"
ReplyDeleteNone of the above.
If I were you, I'd make a different game that has no adult content. I don't think this is similar to AAA games that has the option to remove blood/gore since that is just an aesthetic feature. The rape in kurovadis is pretty much a game mechanic. As simple as it is, it is still a game mechanic that caters to a specific demographic. People who knew kurovadis will know it as an adult game. It's kinda pointless to censor your game at this point.
Or are you considering this for people who have their moms behind they're backs. lol.
Or are you considering this for people who have their moms behind their* backs. lol.
Delete---
freaking typo..
The rape mechanic is a grapple mechanic. Every single rape animation could easily be replaced by an all-ages grappling animation without any change to the game's mechanics.
DeleteI was introduced to Kurovadis not as an adult game. Somebody is speedrunning it and it got mentioned on "The Sunday Sequence Break". I'm assuming that because they're not adult-oriented they were not aware either of the adult content. As such although the preview screen on the main blog had porn elements to it, I was never really sure about the game, and gave it a try. Getting caught by that first plant monster...I actually felt a little sick.
ReplyDeleteThe game is very good, and it's hard to find metroidvanias, so I persevered and got a lot of enjoyment out of the game, especially with save hacking once I'd beaten it. The game is very solid, I love the art style, and the movement is fluid and fun.
However. There is a difference between adult content and graphic rape. People mention stuff like the Witcher, which is like saying that God of War or GTA is an adult game. They're not, and even if they were, with graphic depictions of sexual situations, you'd never get a commercially available product that includes rape as anything but a hinted-at and horrible character-defining moment.
In answer to your question about all-ages, I'd personally lean towards having a toggle, and upfront admitting the adult content...but I'd say it's too late for that option. Graphic rape will always be a spectre over Kurovadis; there's no way you could convince a mother or a casual buyer that something with ties to that stuff is "OK because the gameplay is really good!". I'm pretty entrenched in internet culture, and yet if I weren't so desperate for metroidvanias I would have missed out on this gem of a game, because of the shocking nature of the adult content.
Speaking artistically, I think there's merit to representing rape as you do. It's presented as something horrible, to be avoided, and the musical cues and animations definitely imply something hideous; you feel closer to the main character and want to protect her and so on. But you can't have that if it's also intended as masturbation material; the two are mutually exclusive. Further to that, I think most people are aware that rape is horrible, so there's no need to really represent this artistically, unless you're trying to make a point about all the people online who do mental gymnastics to tell themselves it's OK to fantasize about rape because the people aren't real etc.
My thoughts then are that you'll probably never be able to sell Kurovadis to a "more casual" market. If you're pushing for an artistic message, stick to your guns and keep in the rape and it'll just have to be viewed by a niche audience. If you're just interested in making neat games with adult elements, I'd recommend not ever including rape, and where you do include adult content, allow a toggle. I think most people will be comfortable with playing a game that has adult content, and turning it off if they don't want it, but rape is a line you only want to cross with a very specific and well thought out purpose. Internet culture based on hentai doujins tends to blur that line, but I would hope and expect that for most people off or casually involved with the internet, that line is a lot more sharply defined.
Thank you for your time.
I would consider how you plan on selling the game. if you are selling it from Dlsight then calling it an all-age version should be fine as only someone oblivious would not know they sell 18+ software. if you are thinking of selling from Steam you need to read the terms & conditions vary carefully, then call a representative to discuss the problem. the flack from players doesn't worry me nearly as much as how the company will react (lawsuit anyone.)
ReplyDeleteI'm in the doesn't care either way camp, but if it wasn't for the H elements I'd buy this for my brother and he'd love it, heh.
ReplyDeleteKyrieru,i live only for your postssss,where wil be next ? ;)
ReplyDeleteName it something else, simple as that. Also consider a safe blog with content updates that dont involve the H content.
ReplyDeleteThought a stretch, its possible you may see increased revenue, which is the reward of having the extra burden of runnign two blogs.
I say do it
Hey Kyrieru,
ReplyDeleteCan you please elaborate on the music of the new game? Are there going to be more or less tracks compared to the last game? Will any of the music from the last game appear in the new game? How about remixes? What have you learned from making the previous game's OST, that you can apply to the new game's OST?
I'm a huge fan of your music, especially Mansion and Last Area, so I thought I'd ask. :)
Cheers!
Well, the new game isn't the sequel to Kurovadis, so none of the music will be in it. Though once I make the sequel, it may have some remixes in it.
DeleteIn terms of how many tracks, there are more areas in this game, so at the very least there will be more songs.
As for what I learned, I haven't really changed all that much since then in terms of composing ability. However at the time I had only been playing guitar for a couple months. So, chances are the only real difference will be that I'm better at playing guitar at this point. (As well as some other instruments)
Thanks for the reply Kyrieru. :)
DeleteI was a huge fan of your last game, and I'm looking forward to buying your next one, too!
I say go ahead and make a toggle-able clean version. In the end, especially with rule 34, it won't matter whether there's a separate H version; people will find the porn. Parents aren't going to let their kids play it, and as the original Mortal Kombat demonstrated, kids will play even terrible games just because they're forbidden. The uptight will get offended just because they found out the artist drew sex or nudity at any point during their career. There is absolutely no way to please this crowd or avoid offending them. The best you can do is present your product as adult, but also mature enough to turn off the sleaze. For other mature adults who like that option.
ReplyDeleteRape is a very vile act, but then so is murder. Especially large scale, planet-wrecking, genocidal, super galactic Hitler murder. Yet we're fine with that even in kids' entertainment, so long as it isn't graphic. Billions die in Star Wars but it wasn't on screen so it's A-okay for a six year old. We even let them dress up as the bad guys who committed the act for fun, because that's how inoffensive fiction works. So long as there's a "don't show anything" option, or better yet, "don't even let anything happen" option, I'm pretty sure it covers all the bases. And if not... then our stigma is so nonsensical, it deserves to be challenged.
Not saying it'd be good if he made a no-H version because I'm some hypocritical jerk that wants to kill the horrible corruption...
DeleteI just know others who would enjoy it and buy it xD
Some of them younger people, and the rest, well, average gamers.
And I really don't think it matters what it started as...as long as the game's good, that fact probably wouldn't get too much attention.
As said, it's plainly obvious that releasing a clean version won't prevent people from searching it up and finding out about the game's history. If you release it, I could see one of two things happening. If it gets popular, you'll be marked as "that weird guy who can really make a great game... and fills it with cartoon porn." People will complain, and it will subtly shadow anything else you come out with. If it doesn't get popular, then nothing much is lost.
ReplyDeleteIf it was up to me, I'd have kept the fun game and the H-game two separate things. If I was to release it though, I'd change the name and quickly try to churn out some new graphics to make it look totally different, but still be fundamentally the same. Make a separate blog and a new owner name and you're set to rake in the dough. You can vehemently deny its history then if you want.
...though if nothing else, if that did happen, it'd bring in more H gamers xD
Delete> So, what would you do?
ReplyDeleteDropping adult part of the game in order to appeal to larger audience looks hypocritical to me so I wouldn't do anything - if somebody can't stand mature content, they shouldn't play it.
Type-Moon has created fate/stay night and tsukihime which eventually spawned anime, merchandise, etc. Original games were adult, which doesn't make them worse.
Making games is essentially art, and removing "objectionable" content is essentially defacing the creation. It is also ridiculous idea, like removing zombies from left4dead or removing sex from sengoku rance.
American publishers are pretty famous for butchering anime and games (changing names, redrawing sprites, etc). They butchered persona 1 for playstation (most horrible localization, etc), cut many scenes from anime they release, etc. Nobody should follow their example.
I think that the right idea is to keep game as it is, without changing it in order to appeal for the larger audience. If somebody can't play it because of their beliefs, tough luck.
nice and great sharing, i like this blog very much and i hope that my friends will also like it, i am going to share it on my fb with my friends, thank you Kyrieru
ReplyDeleteThis is the same sort of issue as having a no-blood option in a fighting game.
ReplyDeleteHave it be an option and there's no issue.
I know this is way, way late, but I would really appreciate if there was a non-h version of this game. In my case, it is as you mentioned in the post: I would love to share this game with others, but the nature of its content limits who I can share it with. And I would honestly love to share this game, because it is easily the best Metroid/action platformer style game I have ever played. You really deserve a lot of credit for creating such a fantastic system; everything, the art, the music, the gameplay, all of it combines to create an exceptional gaming experience.
ReplyDeleteYou could always call the non-H version simply "Vadis"; I'm certain I saw that name somewhere, possibly in the demo? Whatever you decide, and whether you choose to make a non-H version or not, I hope that you take pride in the work you've done. You've created a rare gem in this.
When it comes down to it, though, it's impossible to release a non-H version of a hentai game. It would always come out that the original had adult content.
DeleteOn the bright side, I will eventually do some non-H games. Certainly more metroidvanias, and some that may be similar in tone to Kurovadis, abeit with superior graphics and better gameplay.
Then I look forward to the day when that is the case, and will continue to support you in what small ways I can until then. I'm just sorry that there is no more I can do than buy your games when they are released.
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