To clarify what I said my in my previous post, I'm not actually all that concerned with selling games to a more mainstream audience. I have no intention of censoring my games at a base level to appeal to more people.
That being said though, I don't like the idea of limiting word of mouth, or letting the content stop people who might otherwise want to play the game. So, at the very least the game will have a toggle, since all it takes is a single line of code, and I'll need a toggle for certain content anyway, based on people's preferences. Beyond what, we'll see.
As for the game, it's getting there. Right now I'm trying to decide what abilities I want the player to start with, since it would be a shame to go through the whole game without some of them, and every ability you start with makes the game that much more interesting in the beginning. For instance in Kurovadis, I pretty much decided last minute that you should start with the ground punch, which was originally for destroying blocks. Then I added the passive roll attack to make up for it.
Anyhow, back to work..
The one thing about the ground punch that really threw me off was that it was NEVER necessary until the very last part of the last boss fight. In fact by that point in the game I had actually forgotten about it since it was never an effective fighting tool. It took forever to figure out that it was the only way to beat the final boss.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't necessary, but it's pretty much the most effective attack in certain scenarios, given that you can more or less do the most damage with it(against the first boss, for instance). It's also the best way of attacking from above, and because so many enemies lunge towards you as an attack, it's pretty easy to just land the attack on top of them without getting hit.
DeleteRelated question in case it comes up for a sequel. Think it would make the ice weapon OP if doing the aerial ground punch created falling icicles on one or both sides? Doing less damage than a clean hit but widening its range. As a gun it's bad against flying enemies, so I'm wondering if it'd be a way to compensate. Especially since aside from better resembling the succubus's attacks, it'd make it more melee heavy along with the ice swords.
DeleteI don't think any of the previous weapons will be returning. The sequel will be quite a bit different.
DeleteOh. Then I will draw Kuro dual-wielding ice swords myself one day!
DeleteThe ground punch is counter intuitive because it requires direct contact with the enemy in order to be effective and in most of the games of this genre direct contact deals damage.
DeleteI actually appreciated that this wasn't the case in Kurovadis, with some notable exceptions the only way enemies hurt you is with the last frames of their attack animations.
NO weapons will return? Damn...I'm gonna miss the Light Beam T_T
DeleteSomething that would increase the erotainment of the game could be something that the player actually gets rewarded with H animations instead of just being penalty of failure.
ReplyDeleteAye, it'd be nice to have a game where the ero content isn't a punishment, but a goal. Most games just have the "knockdown get raped" thing going on, but what if it was the other way around? Where taking down foes with sex could be rewarded, such as a method of restoring MP or such?
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DeleteThat "knockdown get raped" style of game, in the English world, has been affectionately dubbed "Run or Rape" (RoR). But there is a game that was like you described. It was an action platformer, too, and certain enemies that are killed, you can rape their (dead?) bodies to get health. You're a vampire, so I guess it's okay? Doing this also makes you evil (there's a good-evil bar). I The game was called Nightmare Sphere. Nightmare Sphere 1 came out and it was pretty good. Nightmare Sphere 2 was almost complete, but the dev stopped working on it, because he got a girlfriend.
DeleteThat requires a bestiality-addicted slut or rapist main character. And that does NOT increase the erotainment for everyone. It is a 100% different fetish and tone from "brave heroine challenges dangerous baddies and suffers consequences if she fails." The sex even loses all forbidden appeal when the game's telling you, "Yes, go do that like you're supposed to! High five!"
DeleteThere should be ways to make it less cumbersome and punishing for the player, though. Just abuse the character more conveniently. Preferably in a less disjointed way than "You did everything right, therefor we will punish her."
If you don't want to be a bestiality slut or a rapist main char, there's only 2 ways to approach this:
Delete1) A story with a consentual romance which is kind of the domain of visual novels.
2) Whore/Pimp simulator. Where's a lot of games like this, for example Slave Maker or Sim Brothel. Or even SLG (japanese simulation games), such as princess maker, and more H versions of that game. In these games, it's hard to justify making an action game engine. Unless....
BONUS WAY) Female Spy game. You can choose to use action, or seduction to solve your missions. An EXCELLENT example of this is Dance With Rogues, which I'm convinced is the best story based H-Game EVER.
There was a borderline brilliant but heavily flawed H-game called Thief & Troll. The game was structured exactly like a choose your own adventure book but without being able to cheat and turn to whatever page. It centered on a cave inhabited by monsters and criminals gathering women. There were 3 main characters, one of whom is an alchemist girl who wakes up in the cave and has to escape. It was dark even by H game standards, so it definitely isn't for everything.
DeleteThe game stressed exploration and gathering resources, where H scenes would happen as a consequence of decision-making rather than combat. There were very different routes, different allies and items you could obtain, and paths that were only unlockable under specific conditions. These included completing other characters' stories so they can converge. One path even turned the girl into a loli so several of her interactions and all her H scenes changed. The state of the character, whether they had clothes, who they'd interacted with, etc. etc. would play a part in triggering H scenes. Complete with New Game+, in theory these would lead to loads of replay value and experimentation.
Of course it wasn't very fun to play because visual novel text is retarded for exploring a massive structure without a map. Trial by error for all the choices was a chore because so many led to instant death. There wasn't even much story or conversation, so it did not play on the strengths of its format. Some serious vision and scope was involved, but it was buried in problems. Who knows, maybe it's still got some ideas to pass on even to other genres.
Also it's worth mentioning that playing as one of the title characters, the troll champion Bekou, can get hilariously awesome. Yes, you're a hulking brute of a rape machine who collects women to be your slaves, and can even snag the other two main characters. But you're such a ridiculous juggernaut, every time you enter a new room, you get a new shield. Because you tear doors and gates off their hinges to carry with you. You're not very good with conventional (read human sized) weapons, but you can pulverize everything using pieces of the local architecture or even your bare hands. Your whole purpose is to rampage through the cave out-monstering everything and creating a party of your own sex slaves. Bekou is both the manliest anything ever and a reminder to testosterone worshipers that they should rethink their priorities.
Actually had this in mind and, seeing the Kyrieru's work and the works of others got me pondering making my own h-game, one where sex is a key gameplay element instead of a sometimes unessential game over animation or something (not to knock those who prefer this method), where it's a reward instead of a punishment.
DeleteOf course, seeing these games and wanting to make one is like someone reading a book and saying "Hey, I can write too!", so I'm not expecting an easy learning process. But aside from having to learn gamemaker, I'm still trying to figure out how to make a fun H game where the H content is a necessary gameplay mechanic. I thought about a situation where you're a woman who can't fight the monsters/navigate the landscape she finds herself in, but having sex with the monsters grants you buffs such as fighting powers or navigating abilities.
However, one of the things I like most from some H games, especially from ones like "Another Dimension" and "Labcoax" is that the threat of rape makes losing something you avoid but also something you want to see, which gives the game a real thrill. Sonot sure if I should mix in a way where sex is the mechanic but can also kill and go for a scifi/horror thriller style game, or where sex is always fun and a goofier, more playful style. I'd prefer the former, but have no idea how the mechanics should work. Maybe some enemies drain sexual energy that you need to get buffs from others? or maybe female creatures attack and male enemies are for sex? I don't know, but hope to figure it out soon. Anyway, that's my $0.02.
I love how people automatically assume that all the enemies have to be monsters. There's plenty of ways to create an H game that doesn't involve monster sex - for example, perhaps the only way to recover MP is to engage in sex with humanoid foes, or at least demihumans - a knight, catgirl, etc. But actual monsters won't bother raping you - they'll just kill you like a good monster should, so if you're out of MP, better hope you're skilled with regular attacks.
DeleteBut seriously, "bestiality addicted slut"? Talk about an utter lack of imagination...
Unless the witch counts, less than one in 20 enemies Kyrieru has designed have been human. It's called logic and pattern recognition. Sort of like how none of the ideas Kyrieru has brought up on this blog have been "Sexy Sex Warrior: Teh Sexening of Battel."
DeleteAs for a lack of imagination, that's how I would describe creating an entire sci-fi or fantasy universe just to depict vanilla sex. "Like a good monster should?" Taking the safest, most common, limiting approach to make monsters less monstrous is how you declare your immunity to irony.
I think both the last 2 anons make good points. Have to say though I didn't assume that the enemies for my idea should be monster: I want to go that route because I love monsters! However, Anon 1 did make a good point about branching out that get me thinking about other ideas: maybe a straight shota game where a shota boy gains powers from sexing female enemies to fight off monsters/male ones? Or maybe a Lost Vikings style game where each character has different sexual interactions with different enemies, and some are only compatible with others? Both those could make goofy, sexy, fun games!
DeleteBut I also have to agree with Anon 2 about pattern, recognition and imagination. I love seeing in my fiction, be it games, movies or books, things I can't see in the real world. And it is true that Kyrieru's main concerns aren't sex but gameplay, which is probably why he's made one of the handful of actually enjoyably playable h games out there.
So it seems that the common opinion is that everything that doesnt look close enough to humans are either monsters or animals.
DeleteIt's kind of really bad imagination if someone cant come up with more than 2 ways to approach non rape platformer without bestiality sluts.
Think about universe 100000000 years from now where humans have met tousands of different intelligent spieces and lot of their cultures are merged together and they live like today in multicultural societies...
...endless possibilities to go from there.
DeleteGameplay is the first priority always when making a game, it doesn't matter what the focus is. Bad gameplay = bad game.
DeleteEven if the game is 100% about sex it still needs a gameplay element in it. If this fails then the player probably wants to skip the whole game content and just watch the porn scenes. I wouldnt call it a big success in this case if the developer did a lot of work on the gameplay that everybody feels like is just an annoyance.
There's these visual novels type of "games" where you have some options in conversations ofc but i wouldnt even call them games, their values are pretty much just story + porn.
To the first December 5th Anon: I'm not entirely sure what concept you failed to communicate, but I'm pretty sure people 100000000 years in the future will still call you a pretentious hippie. You claim there are endless possibilities and insult other people's imaginations, but can't present a single idea of your own. It doesn't matter what time period you live in, nobody's confusing your smug stupidity for enlightenment. If we meet aliens, our best bet for cultural understanding will be agreeing you're a douche.
Delete...buuuurn.
DeleteDisregard that insult, I suck cocks. That was technically an idea. It's more than a little unappetizing to have every target be a sentient race in a world with such an advanced civilization and society. And more than a little complex for a 2d platformer where the logic is usually black and white. But it's an idea and I shouldn't have been that harsh. Sorry.
DeleteAye, one of the problems is that we only have a few types of games making their rounds right now - the Rape Or Run (RoR) variety, the Jungle Girl-style variety, and (at least form what I've seen) a traditional jRPG style, but with Game Over Rape. There are the occasional exceptions, sure (I've seen an adventure game or two, for example), but I'd like to see a wider variety of gameplay in the H-game scene. A game where sex isn't bad or a penalty would be a nice change in pace, IMO.
DeleteThis can be done via Metroidvania style, with gameplay similar to Kurovadis, where MP/SP restoration is rare. You can get through the whole game with no sex if you're good enough, but when you run out of MP/SP, the hunt to find someone you can have sex with might be a decent challenge with some good rewards. For fantasy, this could be things like demi-humans, elves, even perhaps succubi depending on the game. For sci-fi, perhaps alien species. I wouldn't mind seeing Kuro with your typical Green Skinned Space Babe, for example.
Also, this doesn't mean that there can't be rape in the game - some foes could still try to rape the heroine, but this time it's not all of them, and certainly not every monster under the sun. Perhaps to add an interesting take on the mechanic, if you were to be raped by these rare enemies, they'd be training your MP/SP/Whatever instead.
Also, an interesting example of a game that isn't pure rape all the time is Corruption of Champions. There, you can defeat enemies either via traditional force, or by making their libido go out of control. Yes, not the same as my example, but it does provide a second example of how to not necessarily rely too heavily on RoR mechanics.
Try thinking about other ways to evolve the genre - I'm sure plenty of you guys have ideas of your own. But don't just sit on them - share them!
In my opinion in the case of a platformer H-game the way to raise the "erotainment" should only be done by polishing the RoR aspect. This way the heroine doesn't have to be a total slut. There are actually several ways to do this:
Delete- Clothing destruction
- Multiple enemies able to join the rape
- Status effects
- Multiple possible animations
- No game over from rape (at least from the first few times)
Piling up these kinds of little details would really make the overall experience much greater. I'm sure anyone who considers playing H-games has already seen some hentai. All of these little things bring out memories from the depths of our minds.
Think about clothing destruction. In hentai videos, or any anime actually, the girls always shriek in embarassment when their clothes are ripped. It's what we expect. When it happens in a game, even if the heroine doesn't show it, in our minds we can imagine the heroines embarassment.
Multiple enemies participating in the rape gives that sense of hopelessness. It's even better when it happens during the game and not during a game over scene, because the player still has the option of buttonsmashing out of it and escaping. This gives the feeling of accepting the fate. Of course a gangbang game over cutscene would also be nice if it gave the impression that the heroine was kidnapped to the enemies lair to be used as a sex slave... Forever!
I haven't really seen status effect stuff much on H-games yet. So far the recently released Arms Devicer has some nice status effect stuff though. Exactly the kind I'd like to see more in the future. Grapple status effect which allows the enemies to do a rape attack. Something similar could be done in platformers. Clothing destruction could technically work as a "status effect" which allows enemies to push down the heroine. There could also be an aphrodisiac state which could make the heroine look a bit sluttier in sex animations, maybe just by changing the animation altogether (which we will soon talk about). There could also be grapple and paralyzation to slow/stop movement. Just to add that sense of hopelessness, that you can't escape from your inevitable "doom".
Multiple animations might be a bother to do, but it would make things a bit more interesting. The animation could change into the heroine being sluttier and sluttier the more she gets raped or if she's under the aphrodisiac state (which could be induced through getting raped a lot). Just like in Mitsuko X. This kind of steady corruption of the heroines mind is also what turns a lot of people on.
And finally about game overs. Well, what can I say. Kurovadis already had the system where you could be raped until your HP was 0, which is nice and stuff. The aforementioned corruption of mind would make this process even better. And when it's finally game over it could be a cutscene instead of a CG. A cutscene of the heroine being dragged to eternal "doom" (leading to a cutscene of the doom itself of course).
How often do you guys think about the psychological side of H-games? Because I think that, after all, it's the thought that counts. ;)
Hey Kyrieru,
ReplyDeleteIn the last game, it was possible to get raped, get back on your feet, and continue with the game. Will it be possible in the next game. More importantly, could you please at a 'count' page, like in nanocrisis, which keeps track of how many times you've been raped, maybe by who, how, etc?
Regardless of how many powers you give the player at the start of the game, please make sure you tell us how to do all of them within the game files. Preferably in game, but a read-me/manual works too.
ReplyDeleteOr at least in an intro-level of sorts such as Megaman X or Wario Land 4 where you introduce each initial ability to the player naturally.
DeleteI'd like to point out, Kyrieru, that simply because the ability is there (and is interesting) is no reason to start with it.
ReplyDeleteYou say "it would be a shame to go through the whole game without some of them", but a great deal of interest comes from powering up your character and unlocking these abilities. If anything, it's best to start with the basics so you can master those first, and master each new ability or skill as it comes around to you.
I would not like to start any RPG as maximum level with all 100+ abilities unlocked. It'd be very confusing. Don't add too much at the beginning.
I know it also gives you more freedom for level design and whatnot, being able to take multiple abilities into account, but there's nothing wrong with starting nice and simple.
I thought that Kurovadis had a really good balance...you started with awesome things, some that weren't instantly obvious that were waiting to be figured out (like the groud-pound), and yet there were more awesome power-ups to find in the game.
ReplyDeleteI hope, in the sequel, that you'll add more things like the ground-pound...
'Hidden' uses of your equipment that aren't very obvious, but can be a great aid if you use them well.
Also, multiple enemies joining in mid-rape. Just saiyan.
... It would be a shame?
ReplyDeleteI'd almost hate to suggest this since it's so simple and therefore probably thought of anyways... But why not make obstacles only destroyable by some skills so players can revisit levels and have a new experience?
Though, I suppose that would only apply if you were still using the "levels" schematic (as inferred by the overworld map idea), and not going for free-roam as it was in Kurovadis.
Just the first thing that popped into my head when the phrase was uttered. No need to pay it much attention.
Skills are used that way. What I meant is that if there are some skills you get in the final areas of the game, you would be playing through most of the game without them. Which would be unfortunate if those skills make gameplay a lot more fun.
Deleteon a random note, was this second game planned to release during this year? for some reason i have a memory shard of such a thing connected to this game but i didnt find anything about it with the quick scan through your posts.
ReplyDeleteforgive me for asking but it bugged me for the past week lol..
though it could be im supposed to remember some other game release near the end of this year, my memory drives me nuts with these kinda things :[
Dear Kyrieru,7 days passed so i must ask...WHENWHENWHENWHENWHENWHENWHENWHENWHENWHENWHENWHENWHENWHENWHENWHENWHEN?
ReplyDelete