Progress on the demo is a bit all over the place -__-
The problem is, unlike something like Kurovadis this is game is a bit more non-linear in some respects, so It's difficult to decide exactly how big the demo should actually be. Stages are shorter but more numerous in this game, and there's a lot of acquiring spells or items that allow you to get to smaller areas within previous levels.
The progression and feel of the game kind of depends on the idea that there's stuff to find, and little events you can trigger rather than just moving forward through stages constantly. But trying to achieve the same feel in the demo means that it will take longer, or might cover too much of the game, giving the player the impression that there would be a lot more in the full game, when there isn't.
When you look at Eroico, it's 3 levels, and level 1 is the demo. It would be like that, but if there were also things you could do at any time, so how much of that content do I include? Hmm.
Anyhow, back to work, not gonna make any progress just talking about it...
Don't know if this is possible since I don't know the layout of your game. You could just put in a small first stage that is set up more or less like a tutorial stage, and then continue on with the regular idea you had in mind.
ReplyDeleteMayhaps 3 stages, each selectable, each beatable, and each giving something that makes one of the other two easier, or shows one secret?
ReplyDeleteI agree with anon and Orexius, maybe you can make a set of initial stages that work as both demo and tutorial, and they compliment each other but are more distant to the rest of the game. That way you can have a space to work on the demo without thinking you are giving away too much or too little on it.
ReplyDeleteOr just use barriers saying "Full game only!" to block off access to other levels?
ReplyDeleteShow off the game main features, some enemies, some plot scenes. Three is a good number(three stages, three enemies, three abilities, three scenes), but more the merrier.
ReplyDeletepersonally i'm fine with any demo you wanna put out,even if it only last two minutes,the important is that your time and energy are spent entirely on the game itself.
ReplyDeletealso i have to say that i'd really love to see you do a side scrolling action game with luscious hd sprites,even if it was more pricey i'm sure people would gladly spend the extra bucks,even more so if the spritework of the CHARACTERS was high quality,sexy and with plenty of frames,kind of a version of eroico with hd characters sprites.
anyway,much appreciation to you for your awesome work,i look forward to your game.
I would think the most satisfying end to a demo would be beating a boss that's necessary to progress further, and allowing the save to be continued in the full version.
ReplyDeleteIf you didn't want to mess with the stage layout too much, you could just put up a whole bunch of construction fence barrier things over stuff you don't want people seeing yet or things that you'd be able to get to if you had access to abilities from later in the game, something different enough from the normal enviroment so people know it's not a regular progression barrier.
ReplyDeleteOr you could do like one of the really early Kuro demos and just crash the game if they try to advance to a screen that doesn't exist yet.
Really looking forward to it, remember, don't kill yourself over it, it's just a game. And I'm sure people wouldn't mind waiting a few more months for a really good quality game. In the words of our lord and savior Miyamoto “A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.”
ReplyDeleteI agree that you could make a section or a path that leads to something, rather than collecting a number of things that leads to a boss.
ReplyDeleteMaybe make the demo a bit more linear than the full game and set up a simple goal, or something like that?
Maybe the demo could be timed? So perhaps they can't explore too much? I don't know. Just a suggestion...
ReplyDeleteMm... a timed demo requires making a timer for the demo and all that, just for an end result of making a more obnoxious demo experience (that, and it would cause 'speedrun' mentality that runs counter to the open, atmospheric feel of these games).
DeleteUp to the first boss is a very standard route, in any case. Areas that require abilities not possible to obtain in the demo can be left as-is (or barriered, either way); just let what's inaccessible remain as-such in the meanwhile. Perhaps if the boss drops an item that opens up some such exploration, let them explore within the existing area of the demo's 'field' if demonstrating that open environment is a paramount... but, that said, I feel like the main point of such demos is generally to get someone acquainted with the mechanics, controls, artistic style, and general feel of gameplay-- no matter how you try to frame the more open, explorative aspects you're going for, the context of a demo just doesn't very well suit such facets of the design, and might not be plausible to exhibit in said demo...
For the record, the Kurovadis and Erico demos were, to me, extremely generous in content. Erico being a full stage along with Kurovadis encompassing multiple diverse areas was easily twice, if not thrice the volume of play that I'd ever have needed to be convinced of purchasing them. Granted, the length of the demos did create an awe-inspired impression of 'wait, that was all a demo? How long could the game possibly be,' which you certainly don't disappoint with (each was roundabout a third or so of their respective games, despite being in and of themselves twice the length of many -full length- games I've seen). But... because of that consistent impression, I'm rather seeing the cause for concern over making a demo that's too limiting...
So, with Kurovadis as a guide, up to the first boss, but not entrance to the area leading to the second, then? Unless I'm misremembering Kurovadis's demo length entirely-- I do recall buying the game before actually finishing the demo...
Demo-barriers is the way to go, though: simple to code, low fuss, and doesn't alter the core gameplay. They've worked thus-far; no sense changing what's clearly worked in that regard.
Mmm, timers aren't really my thing. I think a demo should have a satisfying conclusion, and ending it in a specific place is as much a design decision as it is a business one.
DeleteIn terms of how much side content to add, Perhaps the 1/3 rule should apply there as well.
I agree timed demos are a pain, i rather play 1/3 over and over again instead of playing a full game for 5 minutes once.
DeleteReading the comments, I think having demo-barriers sounds like a good idea.
ReplyDeleteWell whatever anyway, I'm going to buy your game no matter what, so so long as the game's good, I couldn't care less about the demo.
Agreed. With the quality of the other games and the planned complexity, I've already set aside funds for this game.
DeleteIf there are large areas of the game which are inaccessible without acquiring certain new moves first (such as double jump, just to give an obvious example), you could just not give the player this new move when they normally would and somehow make it obvious that they would be getting this move in the full version (and also make it obvious enough to see that they can't progress the game further because of the fact they didn't acquire this move).
ReplyDeleteAt least you're keeping us more updated, which a lot of my other tracked artists aren't doing. I apreciate that.
ReplyDeleteJust lock out areas of the game! X'D
ReplyDelete