Did another low res model today. Took me around 2 hours of annoying 3ds max Canvas bugs -__-
I feel like the next time I do a model, I could do it much faster. There were some weird UV problems that I didn't notice until later, but I was just sort of rushing through anyway
Also took a look at Unity, and what could be done with Cell shading. Used an Oot model as an example.
While I probably won't post them all, I plan on spending an hour a day on modeling. Perhaps next I'll do a Noaika model, over the course of a couple days.
Edit: And another test I did today. (Or rather, tomorrow)
Porn Lovers Win: Blogger Ban on Adult Content Reversed
ReplyDeletehttp://asia.pcmag.com/internet-products/1781/news/porn-lovers-win-blogger-ban-on-adult-content-rever
Thank goodness.
DeleteIf Google got away with removing porn, that would probably be the start of a dangerous slippery slope.
Any chance any of the models will be be rigged and made available for download? >.> I wanna play around with them.
ReplyDeleteI haven't rigged a model yet. Mostly because I just haven't spent enough time on a model worth rigging. I've just sort of rushed through them, since for me it's more about getting used to the software.
DeleteIt's worth testing how the lowpoly models deform at somepoint. Topology has a big impact on how they deform, so it effects on how you should model them.
DeleteIt could just be very difficult I guess, but I always thought it was near impossible for people to make a decent 3D H Game. If the game is low poly, the animations look awkward and there's not much to go off on. I've only played one H Game that was decent looking in quality and animation but the gameplay itself what incredibly stiff and just plain bad.
ReplyDeleteKind of hoping you can change my doubt about this if you ever started working on 3D...
3d is in a similar position as 2d H-games were/are. Very few of the devs working on them know the first thing about making a game with actual gameplay, or proper controls.
DeleteAs far as I'm concerned, making an action game that has weight and feels good is pretty simple, conceptually, because it's just the same principles as making a 2d game. I know exactly what I'd need to do, and I just need to learn how to do them. The problems are technical, and for me it's just a matter of gaining those skills over time.
When I look at bad 3d games, it's the opposite. It seems like they never knew what they had to do in the first place. You'll see attack animations that are only a few quick key-frames long, with no timing at all, no transitions between movement, and no impact behind anything.
So yeah, it's not that it's hard. It's just that nobody who knows what they're doing has tried. And I won't be trying either until I do.
Also, while I would be doing low-poly models, that doesn't mean the textures will be low res. Think styles like Wind Waker, but with more realistic proportions. The goal would be to make them low-poly without them "looking" low-poly, and in "places" where the camera might get in close, I'd probably add more detail.
DeleteAh, I think I understand, but don't low poly H animations move awkwardly? Sure it's easy to mimic a sword swing let's say, but... eh, I'm perhaps just over-thinking the process.
DeleteNot really >_>
DeleteI think the reason why you might be thinking that it's awkward, is because there were so many early 3d games with poor animation quality. In most AAA games now, on the other hand, a lot of studios just use Motion capture.
As long as there are enough polygons for rigging, it will move pretty much exactly the same way a high-res model would. The only real difference is that there can't be as much "stretching", but even then, it's just a matter of having enough polygons in key locations.
Not really >_>
DeleteI think the reason why you might be thinking that it's awkward, is because there were so many early 3d games with poor animation quality. In most AAA games now, on the other hand, a lot of studios just use Motion capture.
As long as there are enough polygons for rigging, it will move pretty much exactly the same way a high-res model would. The only real difference is that there can't be as much "stretching", but even then, it's just a matter of having enough polygons in key locations.
For older games, developers didn't have so great animation tools available like we have today. They had to use very limited amount of joints in their rigs and the models had to be so optimized so that it limited the range of motion cos of the deformation problems. In modern games you can have extra joints to compensate volume loss in high deformed areas.
DeletePolycount isn't an issue with modern machines. Draw calls are the bigger bottle neck nowadays. That means it matters more how much there is actual objects in the scene and how many drawcalls each object causes, not so much how many polygons each object has. GPUs these days can handle millions of polygons in realtime.
Doing flat shaded and very simplified style doesn't instantly mean you have to go for very lowpoly models. Polycount still effects the silhouette of the characters and I can think a few places where you might want that higher lvl of detail in your characters.
You already know the principles of animation from your 2d work. 3D animation is pretty much the same except even easier because of all the rigging possibilities and curve editor. The possibility to see the animation from multiple angles helps a lot aswell. 3D-animation might take more time in some case tho, because you can't fake as much as in 2d and 3D-animation is done in 30fps usually.
About the motion capture.. They still have clean up the data, mix capture data using multitack editor, exaggerate on animation layers which is manual work. Tho it still does save crazy amount of time. If the animation is done well, you shouldn't see the difference between hand animated and mocapped clips. They should blend together perfectly.
It's not just that they can affort the equipment, but they can afford to pay for the crazy amount of hours it takes to get the mocaps to finished animation.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1663270989/project-perception-neuron <-----!!
This could actually bring the mocap to the smaller indie studios. Which is a good thing imo.
For me, maintaining a low poly count is more about ease of development. However, polycount is still for speed, because I won't be optimizing games to the same standards as AAA games. I've also heard that Unity can be kind of slow, and frankly, I think learning to do a lot with very little is a good skill to have.
DeleteWith motion capture, I disagree that you shouldn't, or don't see the difference. Mocaped animation needs to be modified and touched up. yes, but the result is generally much different from normal animation, because in normal animation the human element is more of a factor, for better or worse. My point was that old games may look like they have bad animation compared to modern games, simply because there were more artists working at a low level, and still learning, rather than because of technical limitations. Though there were technical limitations, there were also solutions, such as separating the limbs into different meshes.
Not to mention that animating convincing bodies without motion capture requires almost a doctorate in the study of human motion, and the way 3D polys are animated using blocky rigging and 3-dimensional tweens almost ensures that the animation is going to look clunky. Not only do you have to move the entire skeleton around on the stage like a full-body ragdoll, but you then need to sync up motions for the limbs and heads, all done individually and seperately, and then tweak the living hell out of the motion patters to get something half-way natural looking.
DeleteHey Kyrieru. Is there an expected release date for Noakia? Just a general time like a certain month.
DeleteIs your turn to use Unity :3
ReplyDeleteSure. Cool.
ReplyDeleteAmazing how one comment can so completely destroy my enthusiasm about something....
DeleteYeah... Do your thing.
DeleteMan, I can smell the salt through the monitor
DeleteIt'd be cool to see a 3D render of Kuro!
ReplyDeleteLooks like graphics from N64. Keep workin at it you'll get better
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm still just sort of messing around with these. If I were making something I was going to use, I'd be spending a lot longer than 2 hours on it lol. Hell, sometimes doing the initial idle sprite of a 2d character take longer than 2 hours.
DeleteA single sprite takes that long? I can only imagine a single animation taking a day or more.
DeleteGenerally the initial idle pose takes longer because for me, it's also the initial design process, and you have to make sure everything is perfect, since it's the frame that all other animations will be based off of.
DeleteI see! That's cool to know.
DeleteSo uh... Make any nude models yet? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
ReplyDeleteThe first one I posted of the girl was basically a nude model. The clothing was nothing more than a flat color. The only difference would be the texture.
DeleteGaoww, for some reason I just love it when girls wear oversized coats with long, baggy sleeves. Kinda gives them a floppy, adorable look.
ReplyDeleteFeel bad for those that preordered this game... "Look at all this progress Im making on things that arent what you paid me for! Hope this is what you wanted gaiz!!!!11one"
ReplyDeleteDude Pick up :
DeleteGimp/Blender/MyPaint
GameMaker/Unity/RPG Maker
Music Program (I'll let you cheat here and get some freeware, royalty free music since it's a pretty suffocated and stingy art and usually requires spending some money)
Make your awesome game and come back here and share it with us.....
Such passive aggressiveness! As someone who has preordered the game I'm not the least bit upset with what he does with his free time, in fact by preordering the game I help the development of the game along, because by preordering I know that Kurieru likely doesn't have to get a part time job and will instead have more time to work on the game. But hey, if your gripe is just over some 3d models, get over it.
DeleteYeah, I totally expect him to work 24/7 and not do anything else! /s
DeleteI think it's fine if you had the perception of preordering as a donation. But I think he did not. I too had the feeling the game would come out soon after the demo was released.
DeleteYou are implying Kyrieru is dedicating his whole life to making Noaika, while he probably isn't (and possibly can't) do that as he still needs to rest and clear himself, overworking won't make the game come out faster.
DeleteAny hired worker has to comply a minimum of working hours, usually 8. Kyrieru may be doing more or less of that but the point still stands that nobody can linvest their whole life working.
Also I've noticed that a lot of people who complain are anons and that they've probably not even preordered, way to go.
RIP Noaika
ReplyDeleteHeroine's name should be Aika, because then the game's name would fit reality...
I don't get it.
DeleteAika not release the game
DeleteIf you need/want custom shaders to drive an art style a little further, I would be more than happy to help.
ReplyDeleteI'll keep that in mind. Of course, I wouldn't actually be making a 3d game for quite a while.
DeleteI guess this feels out of place but do you ever get artist block and if you do how do you overcome it?
ReplyDeleteSometimes. In those cases, I generally just work on something else for a while. Of course even then, it's almost never that simple -___-
DeleteDraw what you hate drawing the most. That's what I do anyway. It helps me improve on it but also encourages me to be done with it and think of something better.
DeleteOh yeah, not to mention just draw for yourself and not to impress others. The results are better when you loosen up. Gives character too...
DeleteIts not like im trying to impress someone but rather I draw at least one every month or maybe longer and tried shortening that length by trying to draw something only to crash and burn. I figure the more the I draw, the more i can improve my skills and that one day I might even be able to catch on kyrieru's level of drawing haha... But really thanks for the advice, it really helps (´・ω・`)
DeleteMy level of drawing is...aiming kind of low isn't it? -___-
DeleteAlso, if you want to get good at drawing, then you should be drawing every day, and doing tutorials/researching whenever you can.
DeleteThat works for advice too but don't draw until you stress out. It doesn't help if you get frustrated with every line you draw so it's good to take breaks. (I should know with how much I put myself through T_T)
DeleteWell, don't put yourself that low, Kyrieru. You have a nice but simple style and nothing's wrong with that. That other post does show you can tame perspective a lot better than me though, haha... I need practice with that a lot more.
I've been trying to learn drawing, and it's sort of the same thing as writing, which is an area I do have experience in - whatever it is you're working on, do it daily. I really can't stress this enough; it's more important to get the hours of experience in compared to anything else. This doesn't mean you have to finish a complete drawing every day or make it your part-time job, but an hour a day goes a long way.
ReplyDeleteNope. Not going to say it.
ReplyDeleteSay it
DeleteTrust that instinct!
Delete