Saturday, August 1, 2015
Patreon plans
Alright, so I've finally begun the process of starting a Patreon. Right now I'm deciding on the rewards and stretch goals. Let me know what you think of the following, or if there should be any changes.
Keep in mind, these would be per (weekly) animation. People wouldn't be charged for animations based on rewards.
Pledge rewards
$1.00
- Access to Patron-exclusive polls that will be added to regular votes. (In other words, you get to vote twice). I'll be using straw poll for both.
$1.50
-Will be entered into a random draw. Every month I'll pick a random patron and do a still image of the their choice.
$2.00
- Every two months, you will be entered into a random draw for a full-sized animation of the winner's choice.
Stretch goals
$50 per animation
- I will do at LEAST one animation like the Shantae/Midna ones every second week. Otherwise, they may be smaller (70 - 100 px). I'll still do large res animations sometimes regardless of whether this goal is met.
$100 per animation
I'll do flash versions of all the animations, with sound and basic controls.
$250 per animation
I'll do one extra animation for every three weekly animations I do.
$250 (alt)
Animation draw will be monthly, instead of every two months.
What do you think? Any suggestions as to what I should change? Which $250 stretch goal do you think I should use?
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I'm not really familiar with patreon and how things are for other people who use it. Those dollar amounts seem a little low to me, though? Maybe that's normal? Rewards and stretch goals seem alright at those tiers, though. Both of those sound alright, but I guess I'd go with the latter.
ReplyDeleteI mean, it seems low at a glance, but keep in mind that it's per animation, meaning per week. So if you're paying $1, then that's basically $4 per month, which I think some people would say is either about right, or even somewhat high.
DeleteBasically my only real minimum goal with this is to make as much on each animation as I would with a commission of the same thing. And ideal amount would be $175 total per animation, since it would pay for my monthly expenses, and $250 would be amazing.
I have no idea how well it will do, though. It's either going to fail horribly or go way better than I expect.
Oh, I see. I thought it was per month, not per animation. Silly me.
DeleteIn that case, do you think everything is too high?
DeleteIt seems pretty alright to me, I suppose.
DeleteI think you'll do alright. How many unique visitors do you get per month and per week?
DeleteI have no doubt you'll be able to get at least $200 a week. (Also, put a higher amount option - maybe $5 a week for those people who are rich and want to blow their money/load).
While I think you're selling yourself short, making it per update would balance things out and since the costs are so low it is manageable somewhat. However, since the rewards so far have been just the equivalent of throwing money at an investment you may never see come to light it reminds me too much of playing the lottery, which I despise. I'm sure people will feel cheated over time but since it's like $5/7.5/10 dollars it's probably too small for most people to care.
ReplyDeleteI'll still refrain for joining in on this bandwagon of bad practice, especially for money. But, I will join your patreon if you add a more solid reward, like a commission of an image/gif or something towards your games. I look forward to seeing how you plan things out from here on out!
I mean, I can't think of much else to offer as a reward. If I did images/gifs for everyone who pledged $2, that could be over a hundred images and animations I'd never have time to do -__-.
DeletePlus, I don't think it's a good to delegate choosing content in the games. I generally add enemies based on what I think it needs in terms of gameplay/theme, and I do H-animations based on what I think will strike a balance.
Again, I'm open to suggestions. However the whole point is to "not" take time away from working on games, so it's difficult to add stretch goals/rewards that require a lot of content.
There is a limit you can place on how many people can join a specific tier of rewards, also you can raise the price of commissions since it's dedicated to something more rewarding to the people who chose it.
DeleteI didn't made choosing content in your games as a reward, I'm against anything that has to do with altering your views and ideas on your games. I buy the games because I believe in YOU, not some random guy with deep pockets. I meant sneak peeks of progress or early test demos not included in public releases.
I would imagine these would be doable given how much time you've shown to have thus far but, it's up to you.
Kickstarter is to a salary as Patreon is to a wage though.
DeleteIt's not exactly an investment when the point is to financially support someone for doing something. And specifically this Patreon allows you to see your "investment" with each completed animation. It would be more of a commission.
If it was a weekly pledge that would be a bit different, but if you didn't feel as though the pledge was worth it, or you believed that the person was suspicious, you could reduce it or end it all together.
This is assuming that I'm right in understanding that if an animation happened to take two weeks to complete due to whatever reasons that Patreons would only be charged once.
Kickstarter is a terrible bandwagon of bad practice (as is Early Access), and is a complete gamble, but Patreon doesn't really lock you into anything.
I mean, if I wanted to show progress of the game, I'd do it for free lol. However as I've said in the past, I'm not big on showing spoilers when it comes to content. I prefer that people experience stuff for the first time in-game. I may show a couple screenshots soon though, since it's been so freaking long.
DeleteAs for commissions, it wouldn't really make sense to make a tier for it. If I was going to do commissions, there wouldn't really be a reason to do it through patreon. Plus, I don't really want to do more than one animation per week, since it would start interfering with other things.
@Anon: Yes, people would only get charged when an animation is released. If I was hit by a car and sent to the hospital or something, then everything would just freeze in place until I started working again, including when bonus stuff is done.
DeleteLike you said, basically using Patreon the way I am would be like taking commissions, except instead of paying $100 for an animation, 100 people pay $1 to achieve the same result (except voting on the result).
I never talked about patreon specifically but I am familiar with how it works, having it so you pay per update rather then pay via month has it's ups and downs and you can remove your pledge beforehand. Though, you can't pull back from losing the vote once the voting begins, unless he made it so that it only charges when the animation comes out.
DeleteMy point on the matter is how polls are like playing the lottery, and what I wanted to convey is about the rewards for Kyerieru's patreon. Yes, I understand people are free to use their money as they please but I was being forthcoming about polls and how I think they aren't such a good idea.
I suppose since this is about H animations most people won't complain since it's art and everyone wants to see your piece. But, for the few that -really- want to see you make something that isn't in the majority's taste, if ever, it would be nice if they could get their chance, a bit pricier at least.
By the way, just keep in mind this is the internet and that there are ways to manipulate polls to gain all the votes you need. I say this, because it's fairly easy to do with how the system works. It'd keep an eye out for suspicious votes from now on.
What about behind the scene. Likely every three month you make showing exactly how did it. Also I pick $250 alt.
ReplyDeleteI'm throwing money at my computer but nothing is happening!
ReplyDeleteReally though it looks good. You could also throw in little incentives like posting the animation on Patreon a few days ahead of your blog or little sneak peaks at what's going on with the game or other stuff kinda like that little comic you did recently?
Well, the big thing is that I don't want to do too much extra content, which is why the "bonus" animations are across a larger time frame. If I'm going to do a Patreon, then it has to be in such a way that it isn't interfering with Noaika, since people already pre-ordered it.
DeleteAs for posting animations in advance, I don't think I want to put things behind a paywall, even if it's just time-based.
Got my wallet ready, just let us know when your Patreon is up and running.
ReplyDeleteLong live King Kyrieru!
I highly recommend you avoid starting a patreon until you release Noakia. Even if this extra content isn't interfering with development, it certainly makes it harder for your fans to believe that you aren't putting all your effort into getting Noakia out in a reasonable time frame and it makes people feel cheated for putting money out earlier.
ReplyDeletePeople are gonna call me out for complaining that the product is taking so long, saying the normal things like "just go do something else and wait for it to come out" and "you didn't have to preorder" and you know what, they're right. But I'm going to complain because I was excited for a product to come out, pre-ordered it for 200% asking price, donated money, (which you refused because you said your situation wasn't THAT dire) and have been patiently waiting for however many months since and still no word on any completion date. Doing a "side project" now makes it feel like you aren't prioritizing your loyal current customers. That being said, I still like your content and will pay asking price for it. But I will not be participating in any patreon or preordering anything else you put out. It's August. Preorders were put out in November of last year. People will rise up saying "he never put any eta and its your fault." And they would be right, it is my fault. And trust me, I'll never do it again. I'm gonna remove this website from my bookmarks and not come back until there is a download code in my inbox
I understand where you're coming from, however I don't think I should be acting based on what people are going to think short-term. What people thought won't matter once Noaika is finished, so instead I need to think about what I should really be doing now, while I can.
DeleteThe reason why I usually turn down donations is because I'm in the red, and slowly losing money. I've gone too long without releasing anything. While small donations are appreciated, it's not a long term, or even short term solution. Pre-orders helped for a couple months, however there weren't as many as people think there were (though I was still grateful as fuck, mind you). In my free time, I've had to spend some time doing commissions and other freelance work in order to supplement the money I still make from Eroico and Kurovadis and continue development.
While not spending my free time creating other content may come off as noble, and put people at ease, I think it would be pretty irresponsible of me to screw up my financial situation more than I already have. If Patreon can help me solve my financial problems until Noaika is done and act as a form of content for users, then I need to stop being stubborn about it.
If some of my audience hates me for a while then that's fine. They'll get the game when it comes out, a couple free games after that, and then it will be up to them to judge me from then on. I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.
You're a dipshit, please kill yourself.
Deletedeath requests over a legitimate criticism? I wonder who's the one who is the dipshit who needs to remove their existence from this world. Please don't though, I'm sure someone will miss you
DeleteI think the price is right. Please keep working with caring about your health!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIt will be very easy...if your project actually comply with the description, I think you deserved raise the price.
ReplyDeleteAlso, each value (pay) doubles the vote points. ($1 = 1p, $5 = 2p, $10 = 4p...)
Good luck. I like his work, I hope to be lucky to see more my top game characters:
Q-bee, Makoto, Patricia Wagon, Daisy and Rouge the bat.
I believe that one of them will someday be selected, I'll be awaiting. :3
Well, I think that much money would be a little crazy. I don't think weekly animations are worth any more than $2 per week. And $2 is generous.
DeletePlus, from a buisness standpoint I think it makes more sense to make prices in small increments. If the next step-up is only small amount more (25-50 cents), then a person is more likely to think "Well, I'm paying a $1.00. so I may as well pay 1.25". While people will be paying less for higher tiers, more people are probably going to pay higher than base level. So instead of 5 people paying $10, you might get 50 people paying $2
Also, a Makoto animation would be nice....
I like how you think.
DeleteAlso, Makoto from SSF.
I hate patreon and I'm not interested in the characters people are going to vote for but I'm super excited for Noakia and any other game you'll make (why I preordered) so if this helps you financially while you work on those then that's good.
ReplyDeleteNot much of a Patreon fan as I'm too worried about using a CC online, and I prefer to just lump sum subscriptions/donations with prepaid solutions.
ReplyDeleteI think your tipping amount/model is good. It's a standard tip amount and allows a very simple, flexible setup that won't interfere with your game development.
As long as your consistent I'm sure you will do fine on Patreon. Just keep it simple and manageable.
In case you are wondering, I'm one of those people that pre-orderd.
Thanks for the feedback.
DeleteAnd thanks for pre-ordering, I really do appreciate it. Hopefully Noaika will meet your expectations, and then I can move forward from square one again. I'd never do preorders ever again after this -__-
The price sounds good to me. I'll pledge.
ReplyDeleteこの中に日本語に翻訳できる方は居ませんか？
ReplyDelete「募金」というのであれば是非協力したいのですが…
語学勉強不足ですいません。
It is like fundraising. (sort of)
DeleteThe site "Patreon" enables people to donate a certain amount of money to a creator every time a work is released (such as animation) in exchange for rewards. It's usually done to make certain kinds of work more financially viable.
However, it should probably be avoided if you don't fully understand the language of the site, since how it works could be misunderstood.
All of the animations I will be releasing in conjunction with the Patreon will be free to everyone, so they will not be something anybody will have to buy.
Regardless of how much money I make from it, I will still be creating animations, and working on Noaika.
And don't worry about not speaking english ^_^. I hope I answered your question somewhere.
To clarify, it's not for charity or anything like that.
Delete募金みたいなもんですよ、慈善とも違いますが。
Deleteこの「Patreon」というサイトは作者が作品（例えばアニメーション）を公開する度にお金を送るサービスです。
結果、より多くのネットでの職業を経済的に可能にします。
ただしサイトの用語が分からないなら、多分止した方がいいです。一応勘違いの恐れもありますし。
私が「Patreon」を通して公開するアニメーションは誰もがフリーで見れるので、払いたい人だけが払い、何かを買うのとは違います。
どれだけ稼げたにしろ、アニメーションを作り続け、Noaika完成への作業も続けます。
そして英語が喋ればくても心配しないでください ^_^ 以上で質問に答えられたでしょうか。
I'll support you as soon as I can because I like your work. But I'm calling it now, you're going to reach 500 or 1000 very quickly man, your work is just that famous.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, can you consider making tutorials or something for animation or pixel art in the future? I keep following your work and using them as reference to learn but I think a lot of people would be interested on tutorials for how you do things.
Maybe that will be something I'll add to the goals. I always say I'll do a tutorial but I never do, so maybe I should set it in stone.
DeleteWill finishing the game I already paid for be a stretch goal?
ReplyDeleteYes, that's the $0 stretch goal.
DeleteI strongly suggest you drop Noaika. Seems like you don't want to work on it with how long it's taking. The game will never be as good as hyped. Work on these cool animations instead.
ReplyDeleteI mean, It's taking long "because" I want to work on it. If I didn't want to make it something more than it was at the time of the demo, then I would have finished it long ago. Plus, dropping it would be throwing a lot of money out the window, considering how much I'll make from it. (Even if somehow only makes as much as Kurovadis, that would still be $30,000+ down the drain)
DeleteI stand corrected then I guess. I figured development was wearing on you
DeleteIt is, but that doesn't mean I don't want to work on the game. As much as I look forward to working on something else, I'm looking forward to finishing Noaika far more.
DeleteHow much is Noaika going to sell for?
DeleteI dunno yet. $5-7 probably? It may just stay as $5, and then I'll make future games cheaper if they're smaller.
DeleteCan't wait for release :3
DeleteI'll buy like 5 copies lel
Considering how much time and effort went into this. Not to mention the sheer scope of what you have done this time, I'd say $7 is a minimum.
Deletenot to be a dick but idk if anyone's mentioned this before
ReplyDeletehttps://patreon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204199489-Can-I-offer-a-raffle-for-one-of-my-rewards-
From what I've seen after I started my Patreon, there are others that have done the same, so I don't think it's a problem.
DeletePlus, for something to be gambling the outcome has to have the possibility of a loss. With a lottery ticket, you can win nothing, or less than you paid. On the other hand, people are paying $1-$2 for what is effectively a combined commission towards something that would otherwise cost $100+. In other words, there's a chance of a greater gain, yes, but there's no chance of a loss if $2 is worth a weekly animation that would otherwise not exist. (As far as Patreon is concerned, anyway)
No worries here, just raising awareness where it might be neccessary x3
DeleteNo problem, and thanks for the heads up.
Delete